My original writing was taken down so I could rewrite it. Reading my own story was a challenging experience, and I realized that much of it didn’t truly belong to me; it wasn’t my story to tell.
When we first give our lives to Jesus it is the most amazing feeling in the world. I don’t know how He does it but when we come to Jesus somehow everything is different.
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.” –2 Corinthians 5:17
If you’re anything like me, you can hardly contain your excitement to share Jesus with everyone in your life. You yearn for them to experience the same transformative revelation that has touched your heart. However, more often than not, the response from those you share it with doesn’t align with your enthusiasm. It leaves you with a sense of disappointment, yet you leave them with a heartfelt message, utter a prayer entreating God’s grace upon them, and move forward.
But sometimes, the scenario takes a different turn. It’s when someone close to you, perhaps a beloved brother or sister, doesn’t immediately embrace the message, and you’re left confused. The frustration is heavy in you – why can’t they simply see what you see? You’re overwhelmed by the urge to shake them gently, to make them comprehend. The determination to do everything in your power to help them open their eyes is unwavering. In this, you may inadvertently assume both your role and that of God, convinced that you know the way forward better than Him. However, this misguided endeavor often exacerbates the situation and, regrettably, at times, it distances you from those you love most. It’s a well-intentioned but ultimately unwise approach that can hinder the very understanding and connection you seek to foster.
I am taking a lot of things out for privacy. Although the Bible is clear I shouldn’t have to say anything or bring up other matters.
“Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.” –1 Timothy 5:19-20
There have been many witnesses to come forward and yet no repentance or change has occurred.
This is truly written out of love for the hope of repentance and reconciliation. We still all pray at 5:55, we just pray for you guys, not just the congregation but the elders and pastor as well.
The elders asked me not to share this and I told them I would not if positive changes happened. Unfortunately, I have given them more than enough time to repent and now for the sake of the congregation and my moral obligation, it is time to speak.
If you are reading this and consider yourself a member of Antioch, I ask that you don’t take this personally. I have seen before that sometimes a complaint against the organization is considered an attack against you. Please remember your identity is in Christ and not the organization you attend – remember you are the Church.
In the teachings of the Bible, it is essential to remember the profound importance of love, compassion, and humility in our interactions with one another.
When one tells another that “God is not pleased with you,” as a means of manipulation or control, it is important to recognize the potential harm this can inflict, especially on those who may be more vulnerable or weak-minded.
The Bible encourages us to emulate the qualities of Christ, who exemplified love and understanding in His every action. In 1 John 4:7-8, it is written: “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.” This passage reminds us that love is at the heart of our faith, and using God’s name to manipulate or control others stands in direct contrast to this divine principle.
When individuals are told that they have fallen short of God’s favor because they do not align with someone else’s desires, it can lead to feelings of guilt, shame, and unworthiness. This manipulation exploits their vulnerability, taking advantage of their genuine desire to seek God’s grace and approval. In Psalm 34:18, we are reminded that God is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit, offering solace and compassion rather than condemnation.
Manipulating someone by claiming to know God’s judgment not only harms the individual but also invites judgment upon the one who manipulates. My deep concerns stem from a genuine desire to protect those who may be more vulnerable to the emotional distress, doubt, and confusion that manipulative comments can bring about. As a community of believers, we all have a responsibility to ensure that each other’s faith is nurtured in an environment of love, grace, and compassion, where individuals can grow spiritually without being subjected to harmful and fear-inducing tactics.
It is a dangerous form of emotional and spiritual manipulation that can have severe consequences, particularly for those who are more vulnerable. Let us heed this warning and strive to reflect God’s love and grace in our relationships with one another, supporting one another rather than exploiting their vulnerabilities. When this tactic was used on me by an elder because I simply had not talked to him and he is “one in authority,” I felt worried that they do this to others. When my friend and I sat with an elder and his wife I expressed this and asked her if they had done this to her. She did not answer.
My major concern was the treatment of my friend.
I witnessed her being mistreated by the pastor – someone who is supposed to embody Christian values, love, and compassion. Such harmful actions were inconsistent with the principles of Christian leadership. Witnessing someone I care about enduring mistreatment, especially by a person in a position of authority like a pastor, can be deeply distressing.
While in the hotel in Italy, I observed my friend fearfully apologizing to the pastor after he had an outburst of anger for a simple mix-up at the front desk. She resembled an abused wife. Even an elder’s wife noticed her demeanor and expressed concern by checking on her in the elevator. Her response, indicating that she believed she deserved such treatment, troubled me.
I felt uneasy witnessing a man treating her in such a manner.
It stirred within me a sense of discomfort and fear that the relationship needed better boundaries. Following her reaction to the pastor’s outburst of anger, she confided in me in the lobby downstairs with tears that – if I remember correctly – such incidents had occurred on previous occasions. She expressed a desire to improve her ability to speak up in response to these troubling situations.
I reached out to the pastor after the incident to address the situation and express my concerns. However, he swiftly brushed off any sense of wrongdoing and instead introduced the idea that it was “risky to take me.” This tactic can be quite manipulative because it implies that expressing concerns or opposing the behavior may jeopardize one’s position or future participation. Such manipulation can make individuals more inclined to accept inappropriate conduct, all in an effort to preserve their standing or avoid perceived risks, even though it may involve compromising their principles or overlooking wrongdoing. I understood clearly what he was doing but again it raised a concern in me for my friend.
During this call, the pastor also stressed that I shouldn’t turn the situation into a competition because I would lose badly.
It struck me as odd because I was simply calling to address how he was treating my friend, and turning it into a competition made no sense. I was super confused by what he was saying. Furthermore, I was told that none of the guys wanted me in a leadership role. This was puzzling because again I was calling about his actions towards my friend. At this point, I was already questioning whether I should continue attending this church, let alone having a leadership role. My friend and I spoke about this later and she told me she was confused as well when he said the same thing to her. The call felt like a jumble of mixed messages (word salad) leaving me feeling extremely confused and uncertain about the whole situation. This type of communication can be a form of manipulation, where contradictory statements and emotional tactics are used to create confusion and control the narrative.
My friend requested that I address the topic of boundaries with the pastor.
When I attempted to discuss this matter, he reacted with arrogance, claiming that he does things his way and when discussing his conversations with women he claimed that women “in a way crave it.” This response left me deeply concerned.
My friend and I visited him at his house to have a conversation, and as soon as I mentioned my reservations about my friend being up late talking alone with him, he erupted in anger, pounding his fist and declaring, “You met your match!” This was particularly puzzling again because I was not trying to compete with him; I simply wanted to protect my friend from potential harm. It was an intense and unsettling situation, almost like a scene from a movie.
He proceeded to proclaim this exaggerated story that I suppose he shared with the “guys,” (elders) and he said that they “think you’re a fool!” I had to repeatedly clarify that I had asked a simple question, and he eventually admitted to it.
When I expressed my love for the elders, he became angry and asserted, “I made them! They are what they are because of me!”
This left me even more concerned, not just for her but for anyone under his influence.
My concerns for her were complicated because of his role as the pastor and his long history with my friend, which made it difficult for me to raise concerns without being silenced.
We met at the park the next day. She was upset, and told me it was one of the most intense she has seen him. I told her that if she voiced her thoughts or objections, he might attempt to shame and silence her, much like he had done to me. Although she didn’t respond verbally, the expression on her face communicated an understanding of the repercussions of speaking out.
I expressed my worry about potentially manipulating the man I was facilitating discipleship with, whom I genuinely care about. In the past, I had been conditioned to exert influence to keep him at Antioch when his roommates left, but I began to question the wisdom of that choice. It was clear his roommates were correct in their decision.
Another part of my experience with Antioch was the treatment of my roommate, Jason, who had left the church a few months prior.
It pained me to return home and feel as though I were sinning whenever I engaged in a lengthy conversation with Jason after he left the church. The situation reached a point where I felt compelled to call the pastor and inquire about Jason’s supposed transgressions. To my surprise, the pastor claimed not to know the specifics and mentioned that the matter was being handled by the elders.
I was advised not to question their decisions, as it might imply a lack of trust in the leadership. Instead, I was told to trust them and refrain from asking questions, and “God would bless me big time.”
This was the first time I experienced a sense of manipulation, even though I couldn’t quite put it into words at the time. We ended up missing a friend’s birthday that night.
I sought advice from the pastor about whether I should attend his engagement party at my house.
He responded that it would make a meaningful statement if “Godly people didn’t show up”, and he expressed a wish for more bold men.
I took his advice and it somehow hyped me up and I felt like I was about to be a bold, Godly man.
However, that sense of enthusiasm quickly faded when I returned home that evening and had a conversation with Jason in the kitchen. It was at that moment that I realized the extent of my hypocrisy. I also became acutely aware of how susceptible I had been to manipulation. I also noticed how I felt some kind of spiritual pride.
I realized that when one member of a household departs, it often leads to the departure of the others, not because discord is being sown, but because the remaining roommates have compassionate hearts. They witness their ostracized friend, someone they genuinely care about, experiencing pain.
While it is appropriate to place a degree of trust in our leaders, it’s equally crucial to critically evaluate their teachings and be prepared to voice concerns when there’s wrongdoing. As Acts 17:11 states: “Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.”
“I believe nothing merely because John Calvin taught it, but because I have found his teaching in the Word of God.” –Charles Spurgeon
After spending a substantial period away from the Antioch organization, I was able to spend a lot of time in God’s word. During this time, God provided me with clarity and surrounded me with experienced, older men in the faith who could offer valuable guidance and insights. Upon receiving counsel from a wise and discerning advisor, I realized the statement I heard used, “What wouldn’t you tell me unless I asked?” was manipulative and a way to sidestep someone’s true consent to sharing private information. My friend told me that this tactic was used on her. I repented because after she told me the question, we asked it to each other a couple of times.
Additionally, my conversation with a friend revealed the existence of a woman in Germany who held profound concerns and was in prayer daily for my friend and antioch, as the woman noticed all these things years ago. These revelations only intensified my apprehension and unease and I felt I had a moral obligation to talk to my friend.
I reached out to a couple of elders at Antioch, sharing my concerns and emphasizing my desire to ensure that our practices aligned with biblical principles.
I also expressed my willingness to be persuaded by their perspective. However, their response the following day made it clear that they were not interested in open dialogue; they seemed determined to assert their own opinions.
That evening, I attended lifegroup to inform the leader that I had made the decision to leave the organization. To my surprise, the leader responded by suggesting that I might not understand the significance of leaving this place. I clarified that I was leaving the organization, not the people, and stressed that we are all part of the body of Christ.
I wanted to say goodbye to my lifegroup that evening but I was prevented from doing so. I was told, “If you say goodbye to them it will hurt their faith.”
This is a clear indication that the environment has fostered a sense of identity and allegiance to the organization itself, rather than to Christ. This misplacement of focus contradicts the biblical teaching of placing our identity and trust in Jesus as our Savior and Lord.
True faith, as taught in the Scriptures, is centered on Christ, not on any earthly institution. The Bible repeatedly emphasizes that our faith should be anchored in Jesus Christ, who is the cornerstone of our belief (1 Corinthians 3:11, Ephesians 2:20).
“And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is the son of Remaliah. If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all.’” –Isaiah 7:9
It becomes evident from such interactions that the primary concern may not be the spiritual health and growth of the people but, rather, the reputation and image of the organization. The desire to control the narrative surrounding someone’s departure points to an emphasis on self-preservation rather than genuine care for the congregation. This behavior stands in contrast to a Christ-centered community. In essence, it highlights the need for a reevaluation of priorities within the organization to ensure that the focus remains on Christ and the welfare of His followers.
After leaving the organization, I received a text message from an elder proclaiming that although I already left Antioch he would like to do an exit interview. I expressed that I had sent my letter but if his opinion was still to sit down, I would honor that.
Later that week, upon arriving, they informed me that despite no longer being a part of their congregation, they wanted to do church discipline.
Interestingly, their stated reason for initiating this discipline was the assertion that I had included falsehoods in my exit letter. In response, I firmly requested that they retrieve my exit letter and bear witness to any inaccuracies or untruths. To this, one of the elders responded, somewhat perplexingly, with the statement, “Well, all that you listed is facts…” This response seemed contradictory and suggested that their intent was not to address falsehoods but, rather, an effort to shape a specific narrative.
In my letter, I expressed a significant concern regarding the treatment of my friend.
The organization can try and control the narrative by stating that the pastor had apologized to me, creating an impression that there was no valid reason for my distress. I clarified that while the pastor had indeed apologized to me for his outburst of anger, I forgave him. However, my concern extended beyond my own situation to my friend and others who might have been affected. I emphasized that I had written the letter with the sincere hope that it might serve as a catalyst for one of them to open their eyes and take meaningful action. Also, the part about the pastor verbally abusing me was only a very brief part of my letter. I stated the intention was for positive change.
I posed a question to the elders, asking them to consider what kind of man I would be if I remained silent in the face of these concerns.
To this, they provided no response. When I inquired about why the pastor had been allowed to pray with my friend one-on-one all these years while Antioch had a rule against this, the elder’s response was evasive, eventually mentioning that the rule had been implemented to protect women. In response, I said “Then why didn’t you protect my friend?” which resulted in a disconcerting silence.
The topic was then abruptly changed when one of them asserted angrily, “You’re isolated! Well, you have Schrader! And he’s bad, he has done this at other churches!”
Subsequently, they brought up my interaction with my friend’s parents. In response, I emphasized that, of course, I had approached them. I questioned again what kind of person I would be if I had refrained from informing them, particularly given the close, familial bond I had shared with them for nearly a decade, referring to them as “mom” and “pop” for all those years. To this, they remained silent and offered no response or further insight.
Pastors have a significant influence on others and they must be extremely cautious around women. I gave them quotes from Richard Baxter.
“A minister must be very careful to avoid all occasions of scandal, especially in his behavior towards women. He should avoid being alone with a woman unless there is a third party present, and he should be very cautious in his speech and actions, so as not to give any occasion for suspicion or scandal.”
“A minister should not be too familiar or intimate with any woman, especially if she is young and attractive. He should keep a respectful distance and maintain proper boundaries, so as not to give any appearance of impropriety.”
We often hear the refrain, “But it’s different in this case,” but it’s important to recognize that every compromising relationship reaches that point because people overlook their standards, believing it’s somehow different for that individual.
The absence of clear boundaries has the possibility of taking a toll on others. It seemed like when they engaged in one-on-one interactions, statements about seeing pride in her and highlighting her flaws seemed to subdue rather than serve her. I felt this type of discipleship should come in a women-to-women context.
Just as there has been a strong inclination to protect and defend the organization, I, too, felt a similar inclination to stand up for her. Having personally experienced and recognized manipulative tactics used on me, numerous voices have echoed similar experiences, and reflecting on the tactics that worked when I wasn’t aware, it became evident to me how easy it can be for such strategies to go unnoticed. I can only imagine how many of these tactics may have been employed in her situation. However, it became evident that the focus was primarily on safeguarding the organization rather than addressing the issues affecting her.
A female friend had a deep concern for her and tried to talk to her about it but was quickly turned away after she was made to believe it was slander to worry about a friend.
Slander is spreading false and malicious statements about someone with the intent to harm their reputation. Someone was a friend genuinely seeking to provide support to my friend, it should not be considered slander.
Unfortunately, two other women got involved and the other friend left believing that her expression of care was slander discouraging compassion and empathy, which are foundational Christian virtues (1 Peter 3:8). I don’t blame the two girls – I believe they were acting in a way they thought was best. Unfortunately, this is far from Christ-like behavior and when the issues are not discussed it almost guarantees they repeat themselves. Convincing someone that genuine care for another is somehow slandering almost guarantees they won’t speak up again.
I encourage you to reflect deeply: would you ever allow your own daughter, sister, or cherished loved one to endure an environment where a man, regardless of age, would speak to her in such a way that she would cry due to rebuke, feel compelled to fearfully apologize for his anger outbursts, believe she had to defend him constantly, or even think she needed to lie on his behalf? A man who would audaciously assert that “in a way, women crave it” while discussing communication with him. I challenge you to find a man who would be at ease with such treatment, and I will just as emphatically assert that such a man is, in essence, failing to protect, support, and defend those he cares for, revealing a lack of courage and moral integrity.
Groupthink takes away human compassion. I spoke up because I was concerned for my friend. Remember the Golden Rule, as stated by Jesus in Matthew 7:12, says, “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them.” If we were in danger, we would hope someone would warn us. Therefore, we should extend the same courtesy to our friends.
The act of sowing seeds of doubt can be a two-way street. On one hand, there were statements like, “It’s always a big fear of mine that you get married and someone takes you away from us,” which seemed to create doubts or fears about the impact of a future marriage. Additionally, showing her a voice memo from a woman who left because of her husband’s decision, though I later clarified that the woman was happy and thankful for her husband’s choice. Telling her, “trust can easily be lost.” (This is also manipulative.)
Furthermore, dismissing my concerns as insecurities would be seeds of doubt. While there might have been some validity to their claims — as we likely would have considered leaving if we got married and saw no change — our intention was to address concerns about the pastor’s leadership, not to distance ourselves from the broader community.
I sowed seeds of doubt in an attempt to open her eyes, to encourage a critical examination of the situation. In contrast, it seemed that the church sowed seeds to fervently keep her eyes closed, maintaining the status quo. It became apparent that their definition of “hurt” was telling the truth, as though acknowledging certain realities would be painful.
I came to realize that the scriptural interpretation had been manipulated to frame doubting leaders as a sin.
It seemed as if, for some reason, doubting leadership was considered inherently wrong, as if the Holy Spirit couldn’t inspire doubt for a constructive purpose. However, it’s crucial to recognize that doubting God is indeed a sin, but questioning leadership and testing everything aligns with the biblical principle of discernment and wisdom.
I prayed every day for a long time that God would remove these feelings of doubt in the organization if they were untrue but if they were true make it clear. Well, He kept sending signs and I kept ignoring them, essentially searing my conscience. After I was told she wouldn’t talk to me until I was restored I knew it was time to go. I thought it was extremely strange someone would say this, so I simply asked what he meant and he told me I didn’t trust leadership… He was correct.
I reached out to let her know how it made me feel. I felt betrayed. None of it made any sense to me – we have been friends for a long time, and we have been family for a long time.
Someone told me leadership told them I hurt her and that stung my heart as that couldn’t be further from the truth. I couldn’t understand how she would allow people to say that. I tried to put her needs above mine. I let her know she was enough in Jesus and reminded her of how much He loves her. I let her know I was proud of her and told her she was beautiful as often as I could.
With everything going on while we were together I only wished for better boundaries. However, after I had time away and was able to process everything, I was very worried. I did send her information about the situation within the church, and resources so she would protect herself. It’s essential to note that she never asked me to refrain from doing so.
She also apologized to me in a random message later stating she knows she could have been confusing. My intention behind sharing this information was born out of genuine concern for her, as I had been deeply troubled by the events that had transpired. I would encourage you to read some of the resources to verify everything with scripture.
We are wise to recognize how vulnerable we are to heresy and make it our habit to do as the Bereans did in Acts 17:11: “they… examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.” When we make it our goal to follow the lead of the first church, we will go far in avoiding the pitfalls of false doctrine.
The verse of 1 John 2:19: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” was not meant to be a blanket statement to explain why any member might leave a church.
Using this verse in such a context can be harmful and judgmental, as it may imply that those who leave after raising concerns about leadership are somehow unfaithful to Jesus. In cases where members have legitimate concerns or conflicts with church leadership, it is essential to approach the situation with understanding, empathy, and a spirit of reconciliation, rather than trying to label their departure based on a single Bible verse.
“How is it that you fail to understand that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees. Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” –Matthew 16:11-12
Jesus is cautioning his disciples to be vigilant against the false teachings of the religious leaders rather than being overly concerned about bread. We can’t apply this to people who leave. When leadership makes statements like this it has a serious impact on the way people view their friends.
It’s not from God if you have to lie. It’s not from God if it contradicts Scripture.
They excommunicated me because I told them they were sinning in my exit letter.
I didn’t get excommunicated because I am walking in “unrepentance.”
I didn’t harm my friend, I told her I didn’t like her being harmed
I didn’t slander anyone, I told them I didn’t like my friends being slandered (although slander might have a different definition there).
May this letter serve as a call to reflection, repentance, and a return to the true teachings of Christ.
Ephesians 4:15 reminds us to speak the truth in love and grow in every way into Christ, who is the head.
This is not a matter of a wrong done to a brother. This certainly falls under the category of leaders harming the flock as a whole. The Bible calls for leaders straying to be rebuked publicly.
It grieves my spirit to witness the manipulation of God’s Word to promote personal agendas, causing confusion and doubt among the faithful. The distortion of Scripture, the drawing of disciples after them, and the twisting of God’s intentions are actions contrary to the teachings of Christ.
Yet, when well-intentioned friends reach out to offer warnings, they are met with accusations of leading others astray.
It raises the question: Are they teaching falsehoods, or are they merely highlighting what is wrong? Speaking openly about wrongs doesn’t lead others astray; it promotes accountability. However, manipulation, projection, and accusations seem to be self-condemning.
I am reminded of this passage, John 9:18-23:
“The Jews did not believe that he had been blind and had received his sight until they called the parents of the man who had received his sight and asked them, “Is this your son, who you say was born blind? How then does he now see?” His parents answered, “We know that this is our son and that he was born blind. But how he now sees we do not know, nor do we know who opened his eyes. Ask him; he is of age. He will speak for himself.” (His parents said these things because they feared the Jews, for the Jews had already agreed that if anyone should confess Jesus to be Christ, he was to be put out of the synagogue.) Therefore his parents said, “He is of age; ask him.”
People are scared to speak up because they fear being shunned by our local church.
I implore you to consider your actions.
The Bible reminds us that we must “turn from our sins” (Acts 3:19) and heed the call for repentance. Your actions have fostered an attitude of elitism, which is unbiblical. Attacking motives and character when issues are raised does not align with the spirit of love and accountability found in the Word.
In the spirit of love, humility, and a sincere desire for the Antioch community, may we all continue to strive for lives that reflect the love and truth of our Lord and Savior.
As Luther would say “Here I stand. I cannot do otherwise. God help me. Amen.”
To the pastor I forgive you. Sincerely, I just don’t want my friend hurt.
Well, I know we have a great God… keep Him around.
I Left Antioch Orlando 